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What Next? – PHP

Posted by: admin February 22, 2020 Leave a comment

Q(Question):

I’ve been working to become competent at making websites. My learning path
has been:

html -css- paintshop pro -javascript -php/mysql

I’m getting somewhat proficient at php/mysql (although I have plenty to
learn – I haven’t even started on gd library) and want to think about my
next step.

Any suggestions?
XML and then AJAX?
PERL?
Some sort of vector drawing.painting to do logo’s etc.?

Any advice appreciated.

A(Answer):

Mason wrote:

I’ve been working to become competent at making websites. My learning path
has been:

html -css- paintshop pro -javascript -php/mysql

I’m getting somewhat proficient at php/mysql (although I have plenty to
learn – I haven’t even started on gd library) and want to think about my
next step.

Any suggestions?
XML and then AJAX?
PERL?
Some sort of vector drawing.painting to do logo’s etc.?

Any advice appreciated.

Your path is dependent upon your destination.
Where do you want to go?

It looks like you’re wanting to become proficient in
the fundamentals – so while PERL, AJAX, Java, etc
are all good things to know – you absolutely *must*
learn about XML.

It’s worth pointing out that regular old HTML is
deprecated. It’s obsolete. It’s tech from an eon
gone by. XHTML is the new standard – more workable
with XML, XSLT, and XForms.

A(Answer):

Sanders Kaufman wrote:

Mason wrote:

>I’ve been working to become competent at making websites. My learning
path has been:

html -css- paintshop pro -javascript -php/mysql

I’m getting somewhat proficient at php/mysql (although I have plenty
to learn – I haven’t even started on gd library) and want to think
about my next step.

Any suggestions?
XML and then AJAX?
PERL?
Some sort of vector drawing.painting to do logo’s etc.?

Any advice appreciated.

Your path is dependent upon your destination.
Where do you want to go?

It looks like you’re wanting to become proficient in the fundamentals –
so while PERL, AJAX, Java, etc are all good things to know – you
absolutely *must* learn about XML.

It’s worth pointing out that regular old HTML is deprecated. It’s
obsolete. It’s tech from an eon gone by. XHTML is the new standard –
more workable with XML, XSLT, and XForms.

Which will be very nice when the browsers learn how to get it right.

Hold it – they haven’t even learned how to get plain old HTML right yet!


==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

A(Answer):

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

Sanders Kaufman wrote:

>It’s worth pointing out that regular old HTML is deprecated. It’s
obsolete. It’s tech from an eon gone by. XHTML is the new standard –
more workable with XML, XSLT, and XForms.

Which will be very nice when the browsers learn how to get it right.
Hold it – they haven’t even learned how to get plain old HTML right yet!

You’re right.
There’s no sense in learning any technology because
all of them are imperfect.

F******g troll.
-PLONK-

A(Answer):

..oO(Sanders Kaufman)

>It’s worth pointing out that regular old HTML is
deprecated. It’s obsolete.

No. It’s still a perfectly valid technology.
It might even see a version 5.

>It’s tech from an eon
gone by. XHTML is the new standard

IE doesn’t support it.

Micha

A(Answer):

Michael Fesser wrote:

.oO(Sanders Kaufman)

>It’s worth pointing out that regular old HTML is
deprecated. It’s obsolete.

No. It’s still a perfectly valid technology.

So is steam power – but the question was "what’s next?".

It might even see a version 5.

That’s what XHTML v1.0 is.

>It’s tech from an eon
gone by. XHTML is the new standard

IE doesn’t support it.

ALL web browsers that support HTML3 support XHTML.

A(Answer):

..oO(Sanders Kaufman)

>Michael Fesser wrote:

>It might even see a version 5.

That’s what XHTML v1.0 is.

Reinventing HTML
http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/166

>ALL web browsers that support HTML3 support XHTML.

IE only accepts it when you deliver it as text/html, but then it’s no
XHTML anymore. It’s written in an HTML-compatible syntax, it’s delivered
as HTML and parsed as HTML.

If you really want to use XHTML in a proper way then you have to use the
correct content type application/xhtml+xml.

Micha

A(Answer):

Michael Fesser wrote:

.oO(Sanders Kaufman)

>ALL web browsers that support HTML3 support XHTML.

IE only accepts it when you deliver it as text/html, but then it’s no

That’s because XHTML is text, and it is html.

XHTML anymore. It’s written in an HTML-compatible syntax, it’s delivered
as HTML and parsed as HTML.

And that’s what makes it work.

If you really want to use XHTML in a proper way then you have to use the
correct content type application/xhtml+xml.

That’s one way.
But one of the reasons it was developed was to
ensure that the web content can be deliverd in a
greater number of ways, and to a greater number of
clients… including and especially, HTML clients.

A(Answer):

..oO(Sanders Kaufman)

>Michael Fesser wrote:

>IE only accepts it when you deliver it as text/html, but then it’s no

That’s because XHTML is text, and it is html.

XHTML can be much more than that, but not as text/html.

>XHTML anymore. It’s written in an HTML-compatible syntax, it’s delivered
as HTML and parsed as HTML.

And that’s what makes it work.

Then there’s no reason to use XHTML currently, simply because it doesn’t
provide any benefits over HTML.

OTOH XHTML _does_ have its benefits, but only if it’s interpreted as
such and not as HTML. This, as said, requires a modern browser.

>If you really want to use XHTML in a proper way then you have to use the
correct content type application/xhtml+xml.

That’s one way.
But one of the reasons it was developed was to
ensure that the web content can be deliverd in a
greater number of ways, and to a greater number of
clients… including and especially, HTML clients.

Properly written HTML can do the same.

Micha

A(Answer):

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:06:02 GMT, Sanders Kaufman <bu***@kaufman.net>
wrote:

>Jerry Stuckle wrote:

>Sanders Kaufman wrote:

>>It’s worth pointing out that regular old HTML is deprecated. It’s
obsolete. It’s tech from an eon gone by. XHTML is the new standard –
more workable with XML, XSLT, and XForms.

Which will be very nice when the browsers learn how to get it right.
Hold it – they haven’t even learned how to get plain old HTML right yet!

You’re right.
There’s no sense in learning any technology because
all of them are imperfect.

F******g troll.
-PLONK-

What a stimulating discussion.

-PLONK-

A(Answer):

Sanders Kaufman wrote:

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

>Sanders Kaufman wrote:

>>It’s worth pointing out that regular old HTML is deprecated. It’s
obsolete. It’s tech from an eon gone by. XHTML is the new standard
– more workable with XML, XSLT, and XForms.

Which will be very nice when the browsers learn how to get it right.
Hold it – they haven’t even learned how to get plain old HTML right yet!

You’re right.
There’s no sense in learning any technology because all of them are
imperfect.

F******g troll.
-PLONK-

Can’t you take a joke, you jackass?

First of all, I never said there was no sense learning it. Don’t put
words in my mouth.

Secondly, I never said that XHTML, etc. all were bad.

All I observed is that browsers still have a lot of trouble with XHTML,
et. al. And this isn’t limited to any one browser – all of them have
troubles in one area or another.

But I also indicated that they haven’t even gotten HTML right yet. So
according to your statement, there’s no sense learning HTML either, is
there?

I stand by my statement. These technologies will be very nice when the
browsers learn to get it right. Until then they are a real PITA to get
to work properly in more than one browser. Sometimes it’s hard to get
them to work in even one browser!

OTOH, like it or not, HTML will be around for a long, long time yet.
And maybe *eventually* browsers will get it right.


==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

A(Answer):

Back to topic. Next step, what I think if you want to become competent
at making websites.

adobe photoshop, flash, asp.net, mssql


http://www.mastervb.net
http://www.theaussiemap.com

Mason wrote:

I’ve been working to become competent at making websites. My learning path
has been:

html -css- paintshop pro -javascript -php/mysql

I’m getting somewhat proficient at php/mysql (although I have plenty to
learn – I haven’t even started on gd library) and want to think about my
next step.

Any suggestions?
XML and then AJAX?
PERL?
Some sort of vector drawing.painting to do logo’s etc.?

Any advice appreciated.

A(Answer):

Message-ID: <bm********************************@4ax.comfrom Michael
Fesser contained the following:

>>That’s because XHTML is text, and it is html.

XHTML can be much more than that, but not as text/html.

>>XHTML anymore. It’s written in an HTML-compatible syntax, it’s delivered
as HTML and parsed as HTML.

And that’s what makes it work.

Then there’s no reason to use XHTML currently, simply because it doesn’t
provide any benefits over HTML.

OTOH XHTML _does_ have its benefits, but only if it’s interpreted as
such and not as HTML. This, as said, requires a modern browser.

It used to be that one of the liberating factors of the web was that
HTML was simple and easy to learn. Therefore it was no barrier to
producing webpages. Contrast that with XHTML (generated by XML and XSLT
stylesheets). Actually I don’t know how hard that is, there never being
enough hours in the day for me to find out. But I suspect that this
method is gong to be more useful for web development tools than straight
hand coders (BICBW – enlightenment welcome).

I see absolutely no benefit in marking up to XHTML 1.1 Strict delivered
as text over and above HTML 4.01 Strict. And XHTML 1.1 transitional is
definitely a step backward.

The op should probably take an overview of the technologies involved in
XHTML but a more productive area of study might be in accessibility and
fluid web design.

Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It’s only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee’s, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

A(Answer):

Following on from Sanders Kaufman’s message. . .

>It looks like you’re wanting to become proficient in
the fundamentals – so while PERL, AJAX, Java, etc
are all good things to know – you absolutely *must*
learn about XML.

Rubbish

>
It’s worth pointing out that regular old HTML is
deprecated. It’s obsolete. It’s tech from an eon
gone by. XHTML is the new standard – more workable
with XML, XSLT, and XForms.

Rubbish

Don’t get involved with baroque technology that has a large overhead and
very little real benefit to man nor beast – especially in web pages.
Anyone who can understand the <tagscheme of HTML can get the idea of
XML if necessary.

PETER FOX Not the same since the porcelain business went down the pan
pe******@eminent.demon.co.uk.not.this.bit.no.html
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex.
Gravity beer in Essex <http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk>

A(Answer):

Following on from Mason’s message. . .

>I’ve been working to become competent at making websites. My learning path
has been:

html -css- paintshop pro -javascript -php/mysql

I’m getting somewhat proficient at php/mysql (although I have plenty to
learn – I haven’t even started on gd library) and want to think about my
next step.

Good start. You’ve been looking at how to use a useful set of tools for
your workshop.

There are possibly a couple more bits of off the shelf technology that
you ought to get a feel for. Apache and setting up a web server. If
you can already do this (it’s not hard on a familiar operating system)
then try it on an alternative OS. [1]

There is some important background reading to be done in the field of
security both the general scope and the specifics of dealing with user
input. You should also check out a little bit of the computer science
bit of programming (data structures and OO for example) and the software
engineering bit of programming (development methods and life cycle for
example). Almost anyone can write PHP code but very very few can
produce systems that are robust, resilient and reliable. It can take
years to be really good.

Then you will need to develop your working environment. This is a
matter of trying out editors[2], making useful tools, trying out
utilities, evolving reusable code and structuring your workspace
efficiently.

Of course you’ll need the communication skills to find out what users
really want and convert that into something that ‘works’ on the screen.
This takes time and experimentation.

Finally you might want to investigate in a spirit of ‘I wonder if these
can do anything for me’ some frameworks.

o Good luck.
o When you have a fully functioning software workshop then hyped things
like for example AJAX will be a lot easier to evaluate for ‘what can
they do for me’.
o Get in plenty of ‘miles’. There is no substitute for screen-hours
spent sweating towards working systems.
o If you contact me direct (watch spam trap) I will send you a tutorial
resource which I think will be right up your street.

[1] Also remember that there are multiple PHP programming paradigms. As
snippets inside HTML and as programs that emit HTML.

[2] Have a look at, and keep your eye on, Eclipse. (It doesn’t work for
me but YMMV.)

PETER FOX Not the same since the porcelain business went down the pan
pe******@eminent.demon.co.uk.not.this.bit.no.html
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex.
Gravity beer in Essex <http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk>

A(Answer):

lorento wrote:

Back to topic. Next step, what I think if you want to become competent
at making websites.

adobe photoshop, flash, asp.net, mssql


http://www.mastervb.net
http://www.theaussiemap.com

Mason wrote:

I’ve been working to become competent at making websites. My learning path
has been:

html -css- paintshop pro -javascript -php/mysql

I’m getting somewhat proficient at php/mysql (although I have plenty to
learn – I haven’t even started on gd library) and want to think about my
next step.

Any suggestions?
XML and then AJAX?
PERL?
Some sort of vector drawing.painting to do logo’s etc.?

Any advice appreciated.

None of the above. How about "experience"? You say you are learning
all of these tools for web development, but don’t mention what real and
practical experience you’ve had with them. It’s one thing to learn how
to use a tool, and it’s another thing entirely to have used it in a
real-world situation.

As an example, when talking to a potential employer/client, I could say
that I know Assembly language. After all, I took a couple of classes
back in college where we had to do programming assignments in it. But
the fact that I haven’t touched the stuff in years and when I did,
never really did anything of consequence with it, means that I would
get my a** handed to me if someone decided to call me on my claim that
I knew it.

People looking to hire you don’t usually care that you know A, B, and
C. They care that with those things, you’ve done X, Y, and Z, and can
preferably point them somewhere with the proof.

-Moot

A(Answer):

Mason wrote:

PERL?

Perl is a lovely language. In many regards, it has a similar syntax to
PHP, but it has far fewer built-in functions, which makes it a bit neater
in many ways.

For example, if you need to use a database, there are built-in database
functions, but just by including this line:

use DBI;

you import the database interface, and can connect to and query a
database. If you’re not using a database, then you don’t need to worry
about creating a new function called "query()" — in PHP when writing a
function, I always have to worry about whether there is already a function
called that built-in, or in some widely used PEAR/PECL module.

I came from Perl to PHP (which is not to say that I don’t still use Perl
as well!) and found the transition fairly smooth — many functions have
the same names and syntaxes in both languages. I would imagine that the
transition back in the other direction would be just as easy.

XML and then AJAX?

Although a good idea, you don’t actually need to know much about XML to
use AJAX. AJAX can be a very useful set of techniques, and I’m glad I’ve
started using them. I find it especially useful to be able to validate
form fields against a server script in a javascript "onblur" event.

Another suggestion would be to learn a few more SQL engines. Although
the idea of SQL is that it should be a common interface for all databases;
there are nevertheless slight differences in query syntaxes between
different database engines. It’s useful to know what these differences
are, to help you write database-agnostic scripts. PostgreSQL, MS SQL and
Oracle are all great database engines and can be downloaded for free.
(PostgreSQL is Open Source software, the other two offer free "lite"
versions with some restrictions on their use and capabilities.)

Another thing, is to really get yourself comfortable with the cross-over
bits of these technologies. AJAX is an example of this, as it lets you
pass information between a server-side script (which may be accessing a
database) and a client-side script. Think also of things like PHP scripts
which output CSS and images instead of outputting HTML. The cross-over
parts are important, as they’re what help you create a cohesive project,
and also allow you to "farm out" tasks to particular technologies rather
than just be stuck writing everything in one place.

Lastly, I’m sure there are still some parts of PHP that you have yet to
master. (I’m not trying to be rude here — PHP is a "big" language, and
there are plenty of functions I’ve never used.) I’m sure there are also
some general programming techniques that you’re yet to pick up. In
general, good learning ground is writing a system with multiple users who
need to securely log in; once logged in, are treated as different people
(different permissions, preferences, etc); and can interact with each
other and with the site. There are several examples of such sites
including forums; multi-user blogs with comment facilities; wikis; etc —
there’s plenty of this sort of software already out there, but you can
learn a lot by writing your own.


Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact

A(Answer):

Geoff Berrow wrote:

It used to be that one of the liberating factors of the web was that
HTML was simple and easy to learn. Therefore it was no barrier to
producing webpages. Contrast that with XHTML (generated by XML and XSLT
stylesheets).

Boy oh boy did you get THAT wrong.
XHMTL is not necessarily generated by XML and XSLT.
It’s just HTML with a few new rules.
Little stuff – like always using opening AND closing
tags, and capitalizing properties.

Really – check out the spec.

I see absolutely no benefit in marking up to XHTML 1.1 Strict delivered
as text over and above HTML 4.01 Strict. And XHTML 1.1 transitional is
definitely a step backward.

The one benefit above all others is ubiquity. For
example – say you publish a table of bond rates that
other bond traders will pay you for. If you publish
it as an HTML table, it’ll get out there.

But if you publish it as XHTML, others out there on
the web can read it AS IF it were an XML file – and
do all the cool stuff they want with XSLT, XForm, etc

>
The op should probably take an overview of the technologies involved in
XHTML but a more productive area of study might be in accessibility and
fluid web design.

A(Answer):

Toby Inkster wrote:

Although a good idea, you don’t actually need to know much about XML to
use AJAX. AJAX can be a very useful set of techniques, and I’m glad I’ve
started using them. I find it especially useful to be able to validate
form fields against a server script in a javascript "onblur" event.

Wow – I’m really surprised to see so many developers
say that XML (a fundamental web dev skill) should
not be bothered with.

This kind of advice is like telling a math major to
learn addition and subtraction, but don’t bother
with multiplication.

Really – the fundamental skills of professional web
dev are HTML, CSS, XML, JavaScript – everything else
feeds off of those core competencies.

A(Answer):

I think it is worth getting to know XHTML because it prepares you for
dealing with XML ie. your document has to be well-formed. HTML still
allows you to use unclosed tags to make a "valid" page. The added
strictness regarding attribute values and case-sensitivity in XHTML
seems to me to increase the consistency of development in XHTML over
HTML. Also some of the comments others made about XHTML seem to be a
little off target. XHTML is not XML, it is an intermediate step between
HTML and XML… http://www.w3schools.com/xhtml/xhtml_why.asp

Getting to know AJAX will also help build an understanding of XML. But
I guess the really question is what sort of web development does the OP
want to do?

A(Answer):

Thanks Peter and everyone who responded, even the hijackers.

I wasn’t all that clear, I’m afraid. I don’t want a job. My goal is to
create webpages: First, proprietary pages for myself, and second, webpages
for others.

My ears are open, but it’s difficult to see much benefit for the time of
learning something like ASP — my idea has to learn one robust server-side
code (PHP) and spend my time getting good at it. Ditto MySQL.

Graphics are an exception. I don’t know Paintshop all that well, and I may
migrate to Photoshop and actually spend the time to learn it thoroughly.
Flash and a drawing program are possible. PHP’s gd library is a must-have
for my plans, since I want to be able to draw graphs from php.

I spend about ten hours per week, at this point, on purely theoretical study
(mostly php) and about 60 hours per week actually building webpages. I
really enjoy the coding aspect. I’m a lot weaker at graphics, although I
enjoy that, too.

I’m working on my first page for someone else, a free job for a local
neighborhood association. They are happy so far,

Anyway, all the talk about XHTML is wasted as far as my personal issues,
although people obviously want to discuss it for their interest. I have
started coding my pages in XHTML 1.1 and it really presents no major
challenge. I haven’t had any problems with it on browsers, although I don’t
qualify browsers older than IE 5.

Anyway, a question about your reply. I really hadn’t considered spending
the time to learn about webservers, i.e. Apache. I just ftp the files to my
host and forget about it. About my only work above the public_html
directory is to install a few db-connection scripts and a few tweaks to
php.ini. Do you really think it’s that important for me?

Thanks again for taking the time to respond.
"Peter Fox" <pe******@eminent.demon.co.uk.not.this.bit.no.html wrote in
message news:Ws**************@eminent.demon.co.uk…

Following on from Mason’s message. . .

>>I’ve been working to become competent at making websites. My learning
path
has been:

html -css- paintshop pro -javascript -php/mysql

I’m getting somewhat proficient at php/mysql (although I have plenty to
learn – I haven’t even started on gd library) and want to think about my
next step.

Good start. You’ve been looking at how to use a useful set of tools for
your workshop.

There are possibly a couple more bits of off the shelf technology that you
ought to get a feel for. Apache and setting up a web server. If you can
already do this (it’s not hard on a familiar operating system) then try it
on an alternative OS. [1]

There is some important background reading to be done in the field of
security both the general scope and the specifics of dealing with user
input. You should also check out a little bit of the computer science bit
of programming (data structures and OO for example) and the software
engineering bit of programming (development methods and life cycle for
example). Almost anyone can write PHP code but very very few can produce
systems that are robust, resilient and reliable. It can take years to be
really good.

Then you will need to develop your working environment. This is a matter
of trying out editors[2], making useful tools, trying out utilities,
evolving reusable code and structuring your workspace efficiently.

Of course you’ll need the communication skills to find out what users
really want and convert that into something that ‘works’ on the screen.
This takes time and experimentation.

Finally you might want to investigate in a spirit of ‘I wonder if these
can do anything for me’ some frameworks.

o Good luck.
o When you have a fully functioning software workshop then hyped things
like for example AJAX will be a lot easier to evaluate for ‘what can they
do for me’.
o Get in plenty of ‘miles’. There is no substitute for screen-hours spent
sweating towards working systems.
o If you contact me direct (watch spam trap) I will send you a tutorial
resource which I think will be right up your street.

[1] Also remember that there are multiple PHP programming paradigms. As
snippets inside HTML and as programs that emit HTML.

[2] Have a look at, and keep your eye on, Eclipse. (It doesn’t work for
me but YMMV.)


PETER FOX Not the same since the porcelain business went down the pan
pe******@eminent.demon.co.uk.not.this.bit.no.html
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex.
Gravity beer in Essex <http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk>

A(Answer):

Following on from Gregor’s message. . .

>Thanks Peter and everyone who responded, even the hijackers.
I spend about ten hours per week, at this point, on purely theoretical study
(mostly php) and about 60 hours per week actually building webpages. I
really enjoy the coding aspect. I’m a lot weaker at graphics, although I
enjoy that, too.

Aha! A /real/ programmer aims to spend 10 hours a week working and 60
in the pub. Programming _is not labouring_ but creative design and
efficient implementation.

I’m being a bit harsh 🙂 Study of technology is fine but being fluent
at putting it to use is what matters. Suppose a light bulb fuses – You
don’t need a degree in electrical engineering to fix it, you don’t need
to put on your high-viz vest … …what you do need is to have got a
spare, know where it is and got a torch so you can find it in the dark.

>
I’m working on my first page for someone else, a free job for a local
neighborhood association. They are happy so far,

Get feedback from users and non-users. For example the graphics might
be cool but unreadable to those with poor eyesight or colour blind. The
layout might be easy to navigate but important information on each page
may be muddled.

>Anyway, a question about your reply. I really hadn’t considered spending
the time to learn about webservers, i.e. Apache. I just ftp the files to my
host and forget about it. About my only work above the public_html
directory is to install a few db-connection scripts and a few tweaks to
php.ini. Do you really think it’s that important for me?

Yes. You don’t need to spend more than half an hour getting an overview
and bookmarking a few links. Knowing what httaccess and mod-rewrite do
is sufficient, knowing what sort of things happen in the config file is
important. You may not choose to use any of these features (I don’t)
but knowing they are there if you want them is useful. [Remember that
spare lightbulb – There when you need it.]

PS. Don’t get bogged down in graphics programs. Use what you have to
explore techniques then spend some time applying them before going
through the cycle again, possibly with extra tools.

PETER FOX Not the same since the cardboard box company folded
pe******@eminent.demon.co.uk.not.this.bit.no.html
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex.
Gravity beer in Essex <http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk>

A(Answer):

..oO(Gregor)

>Anyway, all the talk about XHTML is wasted as far as my personal issues,
although people obviously want to discuss it for their interest. I have
started coding my pages in XHTML 1.1 and it really presents no major
challenge.

Because you’re sending it as text/html, which is _not_ recommended.

http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-media-types/#summary

Micha

A(Answer):

Michael Fesser wrote:

.oO(Gregor)

>Anyway, all the talk about XHTML is wasted as far as my personal issues,
although people obviously want to discuss it for their interest. I have
started coding my pages in XHTML 1.1 and it really presents no major
challenge.

Because you’re sending it as text/html, which is _not_ recommended.
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-media-types/#summary

There’s no reason to think it’s being sent as
text/html. As the link you posted points out –
there’s actually 3 others that work perfectly well.

But even if it is being sent as text/html, what’s
the problem? HTML text travels just as well as XML
text.

In the HTML4 spec, it says that you shouldn’t use
tables as page layout tools – but who pays attention
to that?! Getting too bogged down in the W3C spec
is a great way to hobble yourself.

A(Answer):

Message-ID: <%V******************@newssvr29.news.prodigy.netfr om
Sanders Kaufman contained the following:

>In the HTML4 spec, it says that you shouldn’t use
tables as page layout tools – but who pays attention
to that?!

Ummm, people who want to make accessible websites?


Regards,

Geoff Berrow

A(Answer):

..oO(Sanders Kaufman)

>There’s no reason to think it’s being sent as
text/html.

There is, because otherwise he would have run into trouble with IE.

>But even if it is being sent as text/html, what’s
the problem?

I doubt he really knows what he’s doing.

Micha

A(Answer):

Geoff Berrow wrote:

Sanders Kaufman contained the following:

>In the HTML4 spec, it says that you shouldn’t use
tables as page layout tools – but who pays attention
to that?!

Ummm, people who want to make accessible websites?

I access web sites that use tables as layout tools
all of the time. All of the best sites use them
that way.

A(Answer):

Sanders Kaufman wrote:

Geoff Berrow wrote:

>Sanders Kaufman contained the following:

>>In the HTML4 spec, it says that you shouldn’t use tables as page
layout tools – but who pays attention to that?!

Ummm, people who want to make accessible websites?

I access web sites that use tables as layout tools all of the time. All
of the best sites use them that way.

Learn to use CSS. You can do anything in CSS that you can do with
tables – and more.

All of the best sites use CSS.


==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

A(Answer):

Anyway, a question about your reply. I really hadn’t considered spending

the time to learn about webservers, i.e. Apache. I just ftp the files to my
host and forget about it. About my only work above the public_html
directory is to install a few db-connection scripts and a few tweaks to
php.ini. Do you really think it’s that important for me?

How are you learning PHP, related to web design, in any depth without
running a server locally? I would think this would be a fairly high
priority. I can’t imagine trying to develop an interactive site
without a local server.

A(Answer):

Sanders Kaufman wrote:

Toby Inkster wrote:

>Although a good idea, you don’t actually need to know much about XML to
use AJAX. AJAX can be a very useful set of techniques, and I’m glad I’ve
started using them. I find it especially useful to be able to validate
form fields against a server script in a javascript "onblur" event.

Wow – I’m really surprised to see so many developers say that XML (a
fundamental web dev skill) should not be bothered with.

I didn’t say not to bother learning XML — just that it’s not particularly
essential for doing AJAX-ey things. (Despite what the ‘X’ in ‘AJAX’ stands
for.)

XML can be a great tool for exchanging data — especially as pretty much
any programming language these days has built-in support or commonly
installed libraries that make generating and parsing XML piss-easy.

But XML is anything but essential for AJAX. This is because your
server-side component can format its results as, say, "text/plain" or
"text/html" instead of "text/xml".

This kind of advice is like telling a math major to learn addition and
subtraction, but don’t bother with multiplication.

I’ve got a maths degree and I can tell you that there is very little
multiplication involved in University-level mathematics, and addition
and subtraction are used even less. If it had just been adding numbers
up, I might have found it a bit easier.

Really – the fundamental skills of professional web dev are HTML,
CSS, XML, JavaScript – everything else feeds off of those core
competencies.

Personally I find the most essential skills are a good understanding of
general programming princples (recursion, logic, code reusability,
security & robustness), sound database design (at least the first three
normal forms) and usability.


Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact

A(Answer):

william.clarke wrote:

XHTML is not XML

All XHTML documents are XML documents.
Some XML documents are XHTML documents.


Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact

A(Answer):

Toby Inkster wrote:

Sanders Kaufman wrote:

>This kind of advice is like telling a math major to learn addition and
subtraction, but don’t bother with multiplication.

I’ve got a maths degree and I can tell you that there is very little
multiplication involved in University-level mathematics, and addition
and subtraction are used even less. If it had just been adding numbers
up, I might have found it a bit easier.

Wow – I s’pose higher education just doesn’t mean
what it used to in my day.

Back then – we couldn’t do no kind of math without
no plusifications.